And
They Call Us Fanatics?
There are 400,000 plus churches of all stripes in America. Of those, 40,000 are Southern Baptist
Convention churches, 10,000 of which reported not one convert or one baptism in
1995. Think about that!
Convention churches, 10,000 of which reported not one convert or one baptism in
1995. Think about that!
This means that one out of every four
SBC churches you pass by did not have one single person walk their church
aisles professing faith in Christ in 1995. The reports from last years SBC convention was even worse for them.
SBC churches you pass by did not have one single person walk their church
aisles professing faith in Christ in 1995. The reports from last years SBC convention was even worse for them.
Friends, there is a vacuum in our nation, and that vacuum is
slowly being filled by more than 18,000 plus independent Baptist churches. A growing number of these churches
passionately practice during the week what 10,000 SBC churches only talk about
in Sunday school.
slowly being filled by more than 18,000 plus independent Baptist churches. A growing number of these churches
passionately practice during the week what 10,000 SBC churches only talk about
in Sunday school.
If there is a
Hell, and if people who die without Christ go there, then no church should be
called fanatical or cultist that aggressively with passion tries to keep people out of that
Hell.
Hell, and if people who die without Christ go there, then no church should be
called fanatical or cultist that aggressively with passion tries to keep people out of that
Hell.
There are a nominal group of youngsters who slap at our mentors who did the miraculous. Our spiritual forefathers’ work resulted in every state in the union hosting the largest church of any denomination. So, let’s call them a “fanatical fringe”? REALLY? SERIOUSLY?
It is amazing to me that a pastor running fifty to sixty in
Sunday school is hardly ever accused of being a cult leader. However, you let
that same Man of God become excited and passionate about soul winning, about running Sunday school
buses, about preaching the Bible with passion, and the cult comments begin to veneer.
Sunday school is hardly ever accused of being a cult leader. However, you let
that same Man of God become excited and passionate about soul winning, about running Sunday school
buses, about preaching the Bible with passion, and the cult comments begin to veneer.
Not true of our favorite football team, who is led by a man of passion. We would never ever call him a Jim Jones.
We are in Dallas Cowboys football country. Funny thing, that organization has
never been called “cultist” or a “cult.”
Take that same type of fanaticism, that same type of enthusiasm, that same type of passion, put
it into a Baptist church setting, and someone is going to say, “I think it is a
cult!” and that pastor is a “cult leader.”
never been called “cultist” or a “cult.”
Take that same type of fanaticism, that same type of enthusiasm, that same type of passion, put
it into a Baptist church setting, and someone is going to say, “I think it is a
cult!” and that pastor is a “cult leader.”
Nobody makes the Cowboys’
football fans dress the way they dress.
They want to dress that way.
They want everyone to know they are Cowboys’ fans. Nobody makes the Cowboys’ fans attend
their games.
They want to attend
their games. Nobody makes the
Cowboys’ fans “tithe” $75 and upward for a game ticket. They want to pay $75 and upward for a game ticket. Nobody makes the Cowboys’ fans “give
offerings” of $15 for hot dogs and drinks. They want to pay $15 for hot dogs and drinks.
football fans dress the way they dress.
They want to dress that way.
They want everyone to know they are Cowboys’ fans. Nobody makes the Cowboys’ fans attend
their games.
They want to attend
their games. Nobody makes the
Cowboys’ fans “tithe” $75 and upward for a game ticket. They want to pay $75 and upward for a game ticket. Nobody makes the Cowboys’ fans “give
offerings” of $15 for hot dogs and drinks. They want to pay $15 for hot dogs and drinks.
The Cowboys even have a Bus Ministry with air conditioned buses driving right by our church in Longview, TX, packed with these fanatics. Yes, you too could ride one of their buses on Sunday morning for just a few hundred dollars. Alcohol, unrestricted music, unrestricted dress codes, unrestricted language, etc. No legalism here!
Yet, you let a pastor or church members get excited and passionately begin
to dress conservatively, set standards for their leaders, and they will be called “fanatics”. Even to the point of being called a “fanatical fringe” because they are pulling the movement away from the critics desired direction.
to dress conservatively, set standards for their leaders, and they will be called “fanatics”. Even to the point of being called a “fanatical fringe” because they are pulling the movement away from the critics desired direction.
I have to ask the question to one and all, “Is there a Hell?” Do people who die without Christ spend
an eternity in Hell? Is Hell a
bottomless pit? Do people who go
to Hell stay there forever?
an eternity in Hell? Is Hell a
bottomless pit? Do people who go
to Hell stay there forever?
Yes,
there is a Hell! How, then, can
anybody criticize someone for doing something about it? Carl Hatch was not a fanatic. John R. Rice was not a fanatic. Lee Roberson was not a fanatic. Lester Roloff was not a fanatic. Jack Frasure Hyles was not a fanatic. Tom Malone was not a fanatic. I must take exception to the subtle attacks on these great men by young men who are attempting to divide with nit picking attitudes that drain the passion out of the ministry.
there is a Hell! How, then, can
anybody criticize someone for doing something about it? Carl Hatch was not a fanatic. John R. Rice was not a fanatic. Lee Roberson was not a fanatic. Lester Roloff was not a fanatic. Jack Frasure Hyles was not a fanatic. Tom Malone was not a fanatic. I must take exception to the subtle attacks on these great men by young men who are attempting to divide with nit picking attitudes that drain the passion out of the ministry.
Love it or leave it! No one made you trust Christ. No one made you get baptized. No one made you join an independent Baptist church. No one made you join a pastor led church. No one made you join a church with standards and separation from the world.
In a classroom there are folks who earn an A and those who earn an F. The class average then is a C. That is exactly the way it is in fundamentalism. The reason we have an average is because of the fanatical fringe. We need them! By the way I thought we were independent and and possessed the right to be fanatical if we so chose.
In a classroom there are folks who earn an A and those who earn an F. The class average then is a C. That is exactly the way it is in fundamentalism. The reason we have an average is because of the fanatical fringe. We need them! By the way I thought we were independent and and possessed the right to be fanatical if we so chose.
That was my choice and your choice so leave us alone and go your way. We’ll pray for you and think fondly of you, but LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT.
Have a Philippians 4:8 attitude rather than a Demas or Demetrius theological attitude concerning the brethren. We are not one big “body” of “one invisible church.” That my friend is Catholicism. We are local independent Baptist churches. We were never Protestants!
Maybe there is a doctrinal problem coming to the surface and exposing some of these as really Charismatic in nature which is clothed in the cultural church movement. Why attack when one could easily voice support for our spiritual forefathers and why blame them for this Millennial generations shortcomings? You made your bed now lay in it. You want be treated like an adult then act like one and take responsibility for your “fear.”
Maybe there is a doctrinal problem coming to the surface and exposing some of these as really Charismatic in nature which is clothed in the cultural church movement. Why attack when one could easily voice support for our spiritual forefathers and why blame them for this Millennial generations shortcomings? You made your bed now lay in it. You want be treated like an adult then act like one and take responsibility for your “fear.”
The word “fable” is the nearest word in the Bible to the word
“cult.” This word means, “to initiate,” “intuition,” “a tale,” or “a
myth.” Put it all together, and
you have “to initiate by intuition, a tale or a myth.” The Apostle Paul repeatedly
warned people about cults.
“cult.” This word means, “to initiate,” “intuition,” “a tale,” or “a
myth.” Put it all together, and
you have “to initiate by intuition, a tale or a myth.” The Apostle Paul repeatedly
warned people about cults.
When a
church or an individual perverts the Word of God for their own purposes, they
may be laying a foundation for a cult.
However, this does not mean that every time churches or individuals have
minor disagreements over what the Bible teaches that one of them must be in a
cult or is a cult leader.
church or an individual perverts the Word of God for their own purposes, they
may be laying a foundation for a cult.
However, this does not mean that every time churches or individuals have
minor disagreements over what the Bible teaches that one of them must be in a
cult or is a cult leader.
Aggressiveness in soul winning, aggressiveness in leadership,
and aggressiveness in organization are not “cultic activities.” Unfortunately,
Satan and his cults are very often more aggressive in their outreach (i.e., the
Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses), more aggressive in leadership, and more
aggressive in organization than the average church.
and aggressiveness in organization are not “cultic activities.” Unfortunately,
Satan and his cults are very often more aggressive in their outreach (i.e., the
Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses), more aggressive in leadership, and more
aggressive in organization than the average church.
When a church is as aggressive about truth as Satan and his
people are about non-truth, others conclude that the church must be a
cult. Be careful that you do not
mistake an aggressive soul-winning church or aggressive with separation standards as being “cultic” when there ought to be
more churches aggressively winning souls, aggressively separating from the world, all while obeying the Great Commission.
people are about non-truth, others conclude that the church must be a
cult. Be careful that you do not
mistake an aggressive soul-winning church or aggressive with separation standards as being “cultic” when there ought to be
more churches aggressively winning souls, aggressively separating from the world, all while obeying the Great Commission.
LET ME SEE IF I UNDERSTAND?
I’m not sure if I understand this correctly, but are certain young leaders
of fundamentalism blaming Lee Roberson, Jack Hyles, Tom Malone, John R. Rice, Carl
Hatch, Lester Roloff, and other mentors for the so-called exodus from IFB
churches of some youth? WOW! These men have been dead for decades!
Every fall our Bible colleges enroll hundreds of young Freshmen men who believe right and practice right in their local churches. They are attracted to Bible colleges under local churches who believe like those at his home church. They far out number the so-called disgruntled. The future is an exciting one for these young men. I am afraid it is scaring those who desire to take fundamentalism into a watered down level. You lukewarm ones are out numbered for sure.
of fundamentalism blaming Lee Roberson, Jack Hyles, Tom Malone, John R. Rice, Carl
Hatch, Lester Roloff, and other mentors for the so-called exodus from IFB
churches of some youth? WOW! These men have been dead for decades!
Every fall our Bible colleges enroll hundreds of young Freshmen men who believe right and practice right in their local churches. They are attracted to Bible colleges under local churches who believe like those at his home church. They far out number the so-called disgruntled. The future is an exciting one for these young men. I am afraid it is scaring those who desire to take fundamentalism into a watered down level. You lukewarm ones are out numbered for sure.
Pharaoh first hardened his own heart. That did not deter God from continuing to use His man in preaching God’s truth to God’s people, and to Pharaoh or his followers. We are free moral agents and God is not going to detour around truth because some are offended by that truth. Neither are God’s men of 2014 supposed to do so.
- ·
People
leave because they are not of the ones they are leaving. Human nature.
- ·
I would
rather they leave than attempt to commandeer what others lived and died for in
fundamentalism in the past.
- ·
To blame
the quote “dirty dozen” of sins or standards that are preached, as the
reason for an exodus of youth, is as liberal a mind-set as
there is and lacks logic.
- ·
Rules and
standards do not make rebels they merely expose the rebels.
- ·
The
liberals blame guns and not the shooters and the liberal’s desire is to disarm
all Americans from that which they despise.
- ·
Liberals
always think they are smarter and know what’s best and are not happy to just
leave.
- ·
They will
not be satisfied until they control the rest of us.
- ·
This small number of new
breed of young leaders have a desire to take away all standards thus they must
blame certain standards by using such antiquated and ill defined terms like
“legalism.”
- ·
Their
so-called freedom from standards is a trap set by Satan himself.
- ·
They in
turn will define our standards, not theirs, and insulate themselves from such by
calling our standards “preferences.”
- ·
They are
attempting to separate the youth from the influence of the men of God who built great works for
God in the 60’s, 70s, and 80’s
- ·
These men
of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s had more people in their bathrooms than these
young men have in their church. Yes, I am using the horrible topic of numbers. The Bible does speak of “for the work’s sake” some will believe.
- ·
These
young men are opting out of the quest for Holy Spirit power in search of human
spirit power.
- ·
When you
use Hollywood methods you will receive Hollywood results. Church is to remind us of Heaven not the world. A called out body of baptized believers is the “ekklesia.” We are peculiar and even called a remnant.
- ·
When
liberals attempt to re-write the history of these great spiritual men, that God gave us, we
are doing exactly what the liberal intellectuals have done and will do with our historical forefathers.
- ·
When I
was in high school in the early 60’s our forefathers were revered and not
sneered. Then the
rebels of the 60’s became our college professors and leaders of our higher
education institutions.
- ·
They
began immediately to re-write history and make our forefathers look as
undesirable as possible. Thus higher education today is smearing the lives of
our countries forefathers in the text books as well as the classroom.
- ·
The
liberals believe if they can discredit the great men of the past they can alter
the direction of the future. That is why Jack Hyles, Tom Malone, Lester Roloff, Lee Roberson, etc., are conveniently absent from some Bible colleges.
- ·
We are in
2014 seeing the same play just different actors both politically and
spiritually.
- ·
When
those with standards are tagged as “lunatic fringe” by our youth then it is no
different than the Tea Party being tagged “lunatic fringe” by the liberal
Democrats.
- ·
By the
way, that is where the term “lunatic fringe” was birthed.
- ·
The
attack on the U.S. Constitution by political liberals could have been easily
predicted, much like the attack on the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures by spiritual
liberals of our day. One young leader blames our belief of “inspiration of the Holy Scriptures” as part of the problem.
- ·
To tear
down what our spiritual and historical forefathers accomplished with
scandalizing Internet statements is silly and juvenile. This is grade school
stuff.
- ·
I
remember at the SOUTHWIDE-BAPTIST-FELLOWSHIP meeting years ago at Dr. Roberson’s church
when a national leader renounced his position on standards and soul winning. The struggle was on!
- · Many of
his peers and some youth followed suit and they produced a public schism and
that was fine with me. Just tell
us what you believe and we can all move on.
- ·
It
appears that in order to build up this new neo-fundamental group we must
dispatch with the old guard and do it quickly.
- ·
That is
why we have a cancerous soft peddling of a so-called “NEW ROAD.”
- ·
I would
suggest that we not mistake “meekness” for “weakness” and let our old and aged
voices be heard once again.
- ·
There are
still 7,000 out here who have not bowed their knees to the god of this world.
- ·
You can
tell more by those who make comments to these blogs of their approval about this silent rebellion.
- ·
Look at
the ones who give favorable comments to such illogical, unscriptural verbal
diarrhea on these blogs.
- ·
Look at
their Face book pics and look at the wives in their skinny jeans along with
their listing of their favorite Hollywood movies. That is the elephant in the
room that NO ONE wants to talk about.
- ·
A mixed
multitude will never get the job done.
- ·
Maybe we
should just simply declare where each of us stand on separation and then
collate from there. The problem is the youth know where the aged stand because
the aged make it clear. Yet the liberal youth tip toe around the subject matter
with their books and never do declare specific positions.
- If these
young bucks are going to bring the fight on in an attempt to do away with OUR forefathers’
legacy and OUR standards, then the fight is on.
- ·
I really
do not care what they do or don’t’ do within their realm of their convictions,
but do not subtly attack Jack Hyles, Lee Roberson, Tom Malone, John R. Rice and
Lester Roloff in an attempt to invade our churches with this non-sense. These mentors of ours were some of the
greatest men of God our nation has ever known. PERIOD!
- ·
Dr. Lee
Roberson did not give a hoot if another man had his night services at 6 or
7. He was concerned about the
“TREND” and where it was headed for those who were influenced by him. The proof is in the “puddin'” and from what I see he was right as to the destination of such changes
- ·
The aged
see the big picture better than the youth do. Staying in to correct wrongs did not work for the SBC and it will not work any where else. LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!
JUST A THOUGHT!